system 1 headache

[eric]

I'm not sure you're measuring AC voltage correctly as there should only be one reading. You need to measure voltage across these two boints - i.e. one meter lead on CR6 and the other on CR8 simultaneously - not in reference to ground.

At this point, I'd recommend hiring an experienced tech to repair the machine. Regardless of whether the fault lies between the transformer and the power supply or on the power supply itself, the repair will likely be beyond a beginner's skill set. Here's a directory of people that do pinball repair work for hire in the NW:

http://www.pnwpinball.com/repair.htm

[oneandasixtenth]

OK 00.4


maybe I will just get a pascal board ..... getting someone down here will more than likely cost more than 250 bucks....

[eric]

Pascal's boards are terrific, but a new boardset isn't going to help you if you don't have all necessary voltages making it to the power supply. Connector failure is the most common reason for this. When wokong on system 1s, I will always rebuild the power supply connectors because of their tendency to fail. Have you rebuilt Molex connector's before?

[oneandasixtenth]

No I haven't ever even played with board components , dont know shit about them , but I am willing to give it a try...


where do you think I can pick up a molex connectors....

are these on the board or on the wires , can I test the wires coming to the board?

[eric]

95% of pinball related electronic components you can get from , including Molex crimpers and connector parts. Great prices and awesome service.

Before replacing the connector though, I'd test the voltage coming off the transformer and also confirm the 1/4 amp fuse holder isn't shot. There should be 2 lugs on one of the transformers marked 69V. Test AC voltage across these lugs. Fuse holder, (power off!) check continuity across the two fuse holder lugs with a good fuse installed.

[oneandasixtenth]

ok thanks again eric


very much appreciated

[oneandasixtenth]

I got a 5.6 on the Ω set at 200 on the 1/4 amp fuse

One the old fuse I got a 1 in the left readout ....I would believe that old amp is cooked ...I thought it may be because it turned red in two spots for a brief second ... but showed no signs that it was blown....


I could not find a 69 volt post on the transformer ? seems like all the other voltages are there but the 69v?


I must have a short ...... where in the world.... I have the genie book but I thought the 1/4 amp was hooked to a roll over switch? apparently not!

now what

thanks

[oneandasixtenth]

eric I might try this what do you think?





Do NOT try servicing a machine with "A hand full of fuses"!

That is a fairly good way to blow a transformer or worse. Better way to go is to replace the fuse with a small wattage 115 volt bulb. Use a 25 watt bulb for this application. Now, remove the power supply plug and unplug ALL the displays. Hook the light bulb across the fuse holder, then turn on the game. Light bulb should glow, but not a full intensity. If dim that's good. Next turn game off, hook up power supply, BUT disconnect other cables from the power supply (right side and top cables), plug in again, light should be NO brighter. Might be briefly lit, but will dim down almost immediatly.

Now turn game off again, plug in half the displays, test, turn off and plug in other half, test. If the bulb glows brighter at any point (and I do mean BRIGHTER) then you have found the area and just disconnect/connect things until you find the guilty party. You can, if the lamp test passes all the displays and the unloaded power supply, then connect up the right cable (not the top) and test again. If bright with all displays connected remove half and test ... Lastly try the MPU board, but by now you should have found the short.

This will work for both transformers, but you might try removing the fuses from the front fuse panel and test after replacing each one. The test process depends on the problem.

Oh, and if the lamp is bright with nothing connected to the transformer, it is probably bad, but make sure all circuits from the transformer are disconnected, including bridge rectifiers.

This test process also works great for solid state amplifiers and monitors...

[eric]

Is this a joke or something? You don't need to hook lightbulbs up to your fuse holders, all you need to do is simply determine where in the chain you're loosing the 60v.

-Make sure you have 69VAC at the transformer
-Confirm the fuse is not blown and the holder is sound
-Test for 69VAC at input of the power supply
-Test for 60V DC and 40V DC on the output pins

This is extremely basic electronic troubleshooting and if you're having a hard time doing this, I'm sorry but you should probably not be working on a pinball.

[oneandasixtenth]

O well everyone has said carpenters are not electricians .... thats why I wired my own hand built house , and plumbers are not carpenters , thats why I plumbed my own place, this is also why I tear the pipes out of "plumbers work" to make it my own .....


as for this pinball electronics ,... its not like building stairs , or a hip roof , there is a language to this ..


but with this weird voltage shit and delicate boards there are a-lot of people who say they are easy to ruin ...... well I guess thats how we learn.

there is a type of learning curve with all things , like I said this is my first pinball machine , I dont do this for a living ,I just want a good game that plays good , I don't hire people to to do things for me , I learn to do them myself ...

thanks for your help eric it is greatly appreciated ..!

I will keep proding around the thing , I will make her work

[eric]

Just be careful where you're prodding as there are some potentially lethal voltages in pinballs.

Some handy resources worth checking out:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/
http://www.pinrepair.com/begin/index.htm
http://www.pinwiki.com/

[DDT]

Some of my favorites
Dude, you are obsessed with diodes. If it means you'll stop stressing about them, yes, by all means pick some up!
We need units man!
Is this a joke or something? Your hooking light bulbs...
Classic.

[oneandasixtenth]

DDT, eric.... no I was not using light bulbs to look for a short, I did however copy and past from another website
anyway

DDT your only one post above eric , so you should post more great insight , anyhow thanks for all those post! lots of insight ..

Diodes , I know some people that have diodes on their junk poor bastards ..

what a beautiful day , gotta miss the rain

[DDT]

WE NEED UNITS MAN!!! (tufts of hair float through air)

[DDT]

Diodes , I know some people that have diodes on their junk poor bastards...
Are you equating diodes and genital warts? If so "those people" better get some laser treatment and start calling their past partners. Or is removal something you would also do yourself?