Flipper blowing fuse

[kra]

Hello, I'm looking for advice repairing my Elvira and the Party Monsters machine.

I had a sticking right flipper. Disassembled and found that the flipper solenoid was bulging and binding the plunger. Replaced the flipper coil. Game worked for about a week, then the right flipper stopped flipping.

There was a blown fuse, and a flipper coil diode (between one of the coil legs and the shared coil leg connection) wasn't dioding. The coil itself was OK according to my ohmmeter (after the diode was disconnected).

Replaced the diode, checked it and the coil. Replaced the fuse. Started a game and hit the right flipper, at which point the fuse immediately blew again. Flipper did not flip, and new diode is now also gone.

I assume that whatever first broke the flipper fried some semiconductor device in the flipper circuit, and as a result whenever it is powered there is a short of some kind, which is wrecking the diode and blowing the fuse. It's possible I didn't properly set up the end of stroke switch when I put the new coil in (it was set up properly before I tested and blew the fuse the latest time).

So, I assume that some or all the devices in that circuit will need to be replaced, if they still exist. I have the manual, with circuit diagrams, and can hopefully find out what those are, but I'm wondering if anyone has any hints about what to look at. Is there something that would be causing this problem that can be tested? Is there something I should look at first? My worry is that I'll think I'm replacing everything relevant, blow it again, and need to start over. I don't know much about EE, but I can use a multimeter.

Thanks for any help. -Karl

[eric]

Is the diode band oriented correctly?

[kra]

Yes.

[eric]

You have a short somewhere. Luckily the flipper circuit on a system 11 is really quite simple. There actually aren't any solid state electronics directly involved with the operation of the flipper, so don't worry - you probably didn't ruin anything.

Attached is a diagram of how the flipper works. 50V at the banded outside lug, EOS across the center lug and non-banded outside lug, flipper cabinet switch wired to the non-banded outside lug. When a game is started, the flipper relay pulls in giving the cabinet switch a path to ground.

s11flip0.gif (7.16 KB) Viewed 19842 times

Double check your solder work, the wiring, coil resistance, and diode banding. Make sure the EOS switch is normally closed and opens at least 1/8" when the plunger pulls in. If a diode has become a dead short it needs to be replaced.

[Joey9Fingers]

Did you ever figure this out? I had a similar issue going on with a machine, only to feel like a total tool when my repair guy pointed out that I had replaced the flipper coil with the wrong coil ( to high of a winding)

[kra]

Hi all, thanks for the advice, I had to store my machine for a while and didn't get to look at it until now.

I still haven't been able to solve the problem. Coil resistance seems OK, diodes are OK and properly oriented, connections are solid, EOS switch works, and it is the proper coil and diodes. But when I hook it up and flip it, the fuse blows and one of the diodes is ruined.

I don't think I can test a capacitor with my cheap digital multimeter, could the stroke switch capacitor be causing the problem?

I'm wondering if I have the coil wired backwards. I have a System 11 guide that says that the hot wire should go on the right lug and the ground wire on the left, with the diode bands on the hot side. But with both wires to the coil disconnected, I'm seeing about 75 volts between each wire and ground. If neither wire is connected, shouldn't one be a ground?

I suppose I could put another good diode in, figure out which wire is supposed to be hot and connect only that one, and short the center lug to ground (this fires the coil on the good flipper); this would confirm or eliminate the filpper enable relay as being a problem, at least.

[oneandasixtenth]

karl.

could it be that that the flipper jolt, aka concussion is causing a wire to jump a ground causing a short ... flipper wire solder cold jointed?

can you blow the fuse without the coil activation ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VK_4gZU__I

[eric]

[eric]

Karl, can you post a photo of how you have the coil wired?

[oneandasixtenth]

what Eric ... you think that a slamming flipper couldn't or wouldn't cause a short.....

.. the fact is Its happened before. to me! and its clearly a fact that I stepped across my boundarys

its not like I told him to jump his mpu or some shit

get a grip dude , I know you are the master of all things and all but god dam



Please forgive me for I have tried to suggest

ass

tj


..

[Opto]

Who the hell are you????

You don't know what you're talking about and can cause someone to make their problems much worse. It's kinda funny that you've decided to flame Eric after all the times he tried to give you advice on how fix some of your problems. Good thinking. He's helped everyone here an incredible amount.

Go buy some more diodes.

[oneandasixtenth]

Oh, as if looking for a cut wire, or tracing a short , is going to make problems much worse .. thats just bull OPTO

I have thanked eric for the issues he may have helped me with , but I know for a fact I don't need some know it all prick telling me what I can or cant do on a forum about pinball ,

it was just a suggestion , like I said its not like I told the guy (who I know). to remove a ground and switch some wires ,
again like I said this issue has happened to me and it was because someone before me had smashed a wire into another that would only short when the flipper was hit ..

i like the way this gang thinks , bring back the old shit , O yea by the way new diodes fixed that Genie and it plays better than yours



who the hell am I ?
who the hell are you ? I dont care your in portland



TJ

[eric]

You can't post bad advice to a public forum and not expect someone to call it out. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Next time your machine has a concussion, hit me up and I'll hook you up with my neurologist.

[DDT]

I want to know what a sixth "tenth" is?
In Erics defense, he really does know it all.

[ROM]

I hope he knows that he can reduce that to three fifths. Clean up your fractions, bro.

[DDT]

Well he's made a few carpenter references. My guess is that it's supposed to be a sixteenth. I doubt he can work to the sixteenth.
A keyboard know it all rarely has talent.
Clean up your fractions may be my new mantra.

[Dropshot]

In all fairness and to his defense 1 1/16 is the diameter of a pinball.

[ROM]

[Dropshot]

well...not all carpenters know how to read or write.

[ROM]

Fair enough!